Who Forted? Magazine

Bad Vibes: Can Dealing With Evil Spirits Kill You?

Every career choice comes with physical risks, some more than others.

Police place themselves in harm’s way day in and day out in order to protect and serve. Anyone who’s ever worked in an industrial setting can tell at least one traumatic story involving machinery. Hell, I’ve seen Starbucks employees sent to the hospital for severe coffee burns. We weigh these risks before we take on a job, calculating our chance for injury, deciding if the risk is worth the pay, and measuring how great the insurance is. Most of the time, with a level head and a watchful eye, we can go our entire lives without a severe workplace injury, and certainly, there are always those jobs in which the risk isn’t much more than a caffeine headache and carpal tunnel syndrome.

But what about those few people who make it a career to deliver the mortal souls of sinners from the grip of evil? What of exorcists, demonologists, and ghost hunters with a flair for the dramatic and a reality show audience? Is there a risk in placing yourself between a negative spirit and it’s prey? Surely the religious will believe that it’s your own soul at stake, but do the scars of spiritual warfare have a physical manifestation? What I’m asking essentially amounts to one question:

Can the pursuit of evil spirits affect your heath?

Over the past few years, I’ve seen many of these spiritual warriors fall ill, and regardless of the diagnosis, from old age to cancer to unhealthy lifestyles, the whispers persist that the evil spirits which they’d spent their lives chasing had  finally decided to fight back. It’s because of these hushed conversations, and my own morbid curiosity, that I felt this topic deserved a fair shake; not just from a religious standpoint, but also through medical, metaphysical, and practical investigation into the possible dangers of chasing down negative entities, no matter what your personal beliefs entail.

A History of Violence

The belief in evil spirits has existed almost as long as we have, spanning thousands of years and countless religions. While individual beliefs may vary from culture to culture, they generally have one thing in common: if there exists an evil spirit, there exists a way to combat it. Often times, the battle is left between your prayers and a higher power, but for the vast majority of belief systems, there are designated spiritual protectors tasked with the saving of souls; pastors, priests, monks, shaman, witch doctors, each of them with their own rules of engagement. More recently, many of these battles are being taken up not by holy men, but by paranormal investigators looking for a glimpse through the ether, or at least a good chapter in their next self-published book.

No matter the faith, it takes a certain kind of person to intentionally, and often exclusively, pick fights with evil spirits. Many believe they are chosen by a higher power for this purpose, while others simply do it for a thrill. Some feel a moral and spiritual obligation to cast demons from their fellow man. Others are content to do it for ratings. Some are thrust into this world, yet others choose to dive. Bravado or ego, concern or cash – it takes a certain kind of person.

In order to establish the effect that negative entities may or may not have on your health, we must first look at the people who could have had their health affected; individuals who in one way or another, have made it their life’s work to chase down, or run from, negative entities. The following list is in no way complete, it is merely a shortlist of notable personalities who claim to have been affected by the grip of the damned.

  • Malachi Martin: An author by trade, Martin was a Catholic priest whose journey into the world of spiritual warfare began, unlike the others on this list, directly at the Vatican. After spending years in service to the Pope, Martin was released of his duties and moved to New York, where he wrote by day and performed exorcisms by night. In the mid-nineties, Martin authored Hostage to the Devil, a book containing a handful of harrowing accounts of possession and exorcism, and became a regular guest on Art Bell’s Coast to Coast AM. During his interviews on C2C, Martin admitted to Bell that he himself had been seriously injured by the demonic, and had even seen a fellow priest die as a result of a failed exorcism. Martin believed that, thanks to his intervention in hundreds of possessions, that he had drawn the attention of the forces of evil, who were just waiting for a moment to strike. In 1999, alone in his New York apartment, Martin fell. His fall occurred with such force that he died of a brain hemorrhage. He was 78.
  • Ed Warren: The late husband of Paranormal State‘s Lorraine Warren, Ed, who considered himself a bonafied demonologist and claimed training by the Vatican, is probably one of the most notable spiritual warriors you’ll find on this list. As a couple, the devout Catholic paranormal investigators found themselves in the center of many of the 70′s most dramatic cases of violent hauntings, the most popular being that of The Amityville Horror, a case that the Warren’s regularly referred to as “the closest to hell” they’d ever been. The two wrote numerous books about their travels in the darker side of paranormal investigation, including 1989′s Ghost Hunters: True Stories from the World’s Most Famous Demonologists, a read in which Ed writes extensively of all the times he has personally felt under the threat of evil. In March of 2001, Ed suddenly collapsed, and for the remaining five years of his life was plagued with sickness that kept him housebound. In August of 2006, Ed Warren passed away at the age of 79.
  • Lou Gentile: A man who is at least partially responsible for the current popularity of EVP recordings, Lou Gentile claimed to have clocked some thirteen thousand hours in the pursuit of spirits both benign and malevolent, regaling listeners of his syndicated radio program with tales of his midnight adventures. Gentile often spoke of being kicked, punched, scratched, and even hung out a window by unseen forces, forces that he believed were invested in the gradual destruction of the soul. In the late 90′s, Lou quickly became popular for his matter-of-fact approach to the subject of the demonic, ending up a staple of television shows such as World’s Scariest Places and MTV’s FEAR. Poor health eventually hampered Lou’s investigations, and in 2009′s Channel 4 special Derren Brown Investigates: The Ghosthunter, an unusually frail Gentile told the titular Derren Brown, “they say a ghost can’t kill you, and that’s not true.” Lou passed away before the show even aired, succumbing to cancer in his early 40′s.
  • George Lutz: Rather than seeking out altercations with evil spirits, Lutz is a noteworthy addition to this list for having made an entire career out of running away from them. Lutz, who in 1976 claimed to have fled monsters plaguing his home at 112 Ocean Avenue, acquired the help of author Jay Ansen and the Warrens, and a year later, The Amityville Horror was written, the harrowing account of a sinister haunting that spawned several additional books and over ten films. Despite mounting evidence of a hoax, George stuck by his story for 30 years, a tale which included everything from green slime, demonic pigs, even a bite on the ankle from a malevolent spirit. George, or Lee to his friends, became something of a mentor to many ghost hunters later in his life, offering guidance for those dealing with violent hauntings and even planning to build a school for psychic youth. In 2005, Lutz sued the makers of that year’s Amityville Horror film for defamation and libel, unhappy with his portrayal as a dog killing psychopath. The defamation case was promptly dismissed by a Los Angeles court, and within a few months, George was dead. He was 59.
  • Tom Robertson: Most well known in Scotland, Robertson is a charismatic ghost hunter who for years has spoken of brushes with more than simple ghouls. Throughout his many books, such as Ghost Hunter: Adventures in the Afterlife, Robertson claims to have come face to face with specters, demons, and secret societies, but his oddest encounter may have been when he was allegedly contacted by Michael Jackson in a bid for eternal life via a captured vampire. Tom claims, among other things, that his investigations into the occult have seen him hospitalized twice due to injuries sustained by angry spirits. Just last year, Robertson told Scotland’s The Sun that he had been diagnosed with prostate cancer and believed that his time was almost up. “I have seen some terrible things from the spirit world and I’m big enough to admit I fear going over to the other side,” he said.
  • Ryan Buell: By far the youngest on this list, the 30 year old Buell has had the rare advantage of being groomed by team of professional television producers, resulting in the reputation of a seasoned demon fighter in a fraction of the time it took others to establish themselves. For four years, Ryan starred in Paranormal State, a reality tv show notable for it’s overtly religious overtones, and Buell’s assertion that he worked directly with the Catholic church in the saving of souls. The series’ five seasons saw Buell leading numerous exorcisms, residential clearings, and at times, physical altercations with demonic entities. The most interesting part of Ryan’s career is his claim that he himself had been singled out by the forces of darkness for his heroism, and thusly, was subject to torment by a demon named Belial. This harassment went on for years, and Buell claims to have dealt with the problem by mocking the entity regularly, referring to it as a “bunny”. Following the failure of his show The Ghost Prophesies to perform past the pilot stage, Paranormal State was cancelled in the spring of last year. Just weeks ago, after an extended public hiatus, Ryan Buell announced that he was fighting pancreatic cancer.

This list comprises only a small cross section of a wide group of individuals who believe they have affected by intervening in the agendas of evil spirits. I’d wager that those of you who run in ghost hunting circles could name a few people you know personally who have told stories of being scratched, pushed, pulled, or made ill by unseen forces. In fact, one need only take a stroll down an aisle of board games to see the effect that widespread belief in demonic influence has had on society. Just several days ago, I was publicly accosted by a woman who insisted that my purchase of a vintage Ouija board would be my downfall. While my own beliefs don’t match up to hers, I couldn’t fault the woman for trying to save my soul. After all, she very clearly believed that I was purchasing a cardboard portal to hell.

But what if she was right? What if the forces of evil are all around us, hellbent on wreaking havoc on the human race and punishing with crippling illnesses those who would dare mock them? Could there be any truth to demonic afflictions or could these illnesses be caused by something equally as strange?

Playing with Fire

From a purely religious perspective, there’s not much point in trying to dispute the idea that evil spirits and their intentions are very clearly laid out in the Judeo-Christian faiths. Biblical stories of demonic influence almost always begin with descriptions of physical ailments attributed to spiritual oppression. Upon having their demons cast out, the afflicted are suddenly free from their sicknesses; the blind can see, the crippled can walk, and the lepers are healed. For those who believe that evil spirits are the literal soldiers of Satan, for people like Malachi Martin, Ed Warren, or Ryan Buell, the dangers of dealing with these forces are so crystal clear that they need no further explanation. After all, the rite of exorcism has not fundamentally changed in hundreds of years, so why question the biblical explanation that malevolent forces can, and do, cause sickness? Father Martin would often talk about how with each deliverance performed, a bit of that priest’s life was lost. The priest’s gradual decay was considered a kind of sacrifice in the service of God. To the devoutly religious, the price of spiritual warfare is not even a question.

But what about the rest of us? What about those of us who don’t believe that negative entities are a product of some greater evil? What about those of us who just plain don’t believe in demons, evil spirits, or, for that matter, don’t believe in run of the mill spirits to begin with? Are we supposed to accept that these individuals have actually suffered for their work? Well, if recent medical studies are to be believed, they very well may have.

In a 2009 report presented in New Scientist Magazine, researchers claimed that results of a series of global studies indicated that negative thoughts can have a measurable and verifiable effect on one’s health. These studies ranged from subjects suffering medication side effects when given only sham treatments, to finding out that the more someone believes that they won’t make it through surgery, the more likely they are to die on the operating table.

In an interview with The Daily Mail, Dr. Clifton Meador, of Vanderbilt School of Medicine in Nashville, said fear can and does have a very real effect on the body.

“Bad news promotes bad physiology. I think that you can persuade people that they’re going to die and have it happen. I don’t think there is anything mystical about it. We’re uncomfortable with the idea that words or symbolic actions can cause death because it changes our biomolecular model of the world.”

In an even more recent example of how negativity can influence the body, a brain imaging study conducted last year at Oxford University showed that when a patient expects to receive poor treatment, that person’s belief alone can actually override the effects of potent pain relieving drugs. In other words, those more prone to negative thoughts are more likely to experience negative effects not only mentally, but physically to boot. This phenomena has become known as the nocebo effect, the lesser known opposite of the generally favorable placebo effect.

As a final, extreme example of the nocebo effect, consider the man in the 1970′s who was diagnosed with liver cancer and given just a few months to live. Although the man died within the determined timeframe, the doctors who performed the autopsy found only a small, non-threatening tumor. Even though his diagnosis was incorrect, the man so strongly believed that he was marked for death that his belief killed him.

You might be asking yourself what any of these studies have to do with being attacked by demons, but consider for a moment how fervently these spiritual warriors believe in what they claim to be fighting against. If the power of belief is enough to render robust opiates ineffective, then it doesn’t require a stretch of the imagination to see that those who place themselves in the mindset of a spiritual, emotional, and often physical battle with the forces of evil might suffer at least some of the wear and tear they anticipate. Much like the man with the misdiagnosed cancer, the scars of spiritual warfare can become a self-fulfilling prophesy, even if there were never any demons to begin with.

Lifestyles of the Oppressed and Famous

I don’t mean to say that someone like Ed Warren never came face to face with dark forces that severely impacted his life. I also don’t mean to say with any amount of certainty that it was his unwavering belief in these forces that killed him. I never had the opportunity to know Ed while he was alive, so for me to make any kind of judgement on how or why he fell ill would be foolish. Most of these theories are nothing but speculation, rumination, and conversation. I mean only to look at the evidence presented, and ask whether or not dealing with the demonic can, ultimately, kill you.

But while I can’t give you a definitive answer regarding the existence of the demonic or deaths by negativity, what I can give you is yet a third possible theory on the cause of the strange (or not so strange) sicknesses that have befallen so many exorcists, demonologists, and ghost hunters; a theory that lends itself to the practicality that only someone as jaded to the paranormal community as I could reach:

The hours are complete shit.

For those of you who aren’t terribly familiar with how the paranormal circuit works, let me drop some knowledge on you. Chasing monsters, as a general rule, is not the cash cow you might think it is. Unless you’re part of long running television show like Ghost Hunters, you are seriously hustling to make a buck off your paranormal prowess. A moderately successful paranormal celebrity is, at any given time, traveling across the county to appear at any number of paranormal conventions, organizing paranormal tours of famous landmarks, writing a book (or three if you’re Nick Redfern or Rosemary Ellen Guilley), “filming a pilot”, recording a podcast, building a ridiculous ghost detection tool, and occasionally cheating on their husband with Zak Bagans. They do all of these things because they have chosen to pursue the paranormal as a source of monetary compensation. Remember that the next time you pay $25 for an autographed photo that they printed for 15 cents at the Kinkos around the corner. This is their job, and selling their stories to you, convincing you that they are more special than you are, is how they make their money. Like any good hustler, they work all the angles for insane hours, often times only pulling in a few hundred bucks a week. Why? Because they don’t want to work a normal job.

I’ve known, and do know, many people who have attempted to make this scene their primary source of income. As you can probably imagine, even just a year of living on the road, ghost hunting from 12-4AM with a 10AM hotel checkout time, eating at any greasy diner that’s convenient, deriving nutrients from Red Bull and coffee, it takes a toll on your body. Setting aside all the other bad habits that come with life on the road, I would be hard pressed to name more than a handful of these people who don’t smoke at least a pack of cigarettes the day. The life of a hustler, paranormal or not, is not a healthy lifestyle by any means. Does this apply to to everyone on the list? Certainly not, but I can clearly recall sitting right next to Lou Gentile as he chased a dripping cheeseburger with multiple cigarettes at one in the morning.

With a long enough timeframe, lack of sleep, unhealthy food, and carcinogenic vices are a surefire recipe for disaster.

Connecting The Dots

The fact of the matter is that anyone looking to make a connection will find a way to do it. As humans, we’re hardwired to make the pieces click together, even if that means we need to mentally shave a few edges off. Here’s an interesting coincidence about our list of demon hunters: three of the six people mentioned are connected to the Warren’s investigations. Hell, a fourth actually is a Warren. Both Buell and Gentile claimed to have been mentored by Ed and Lorraine, while George Lutz worked with them on the Amityville case. One could make the assertion that there is curse affecting the Warrens and those who associated with them (in which case, keep an eye on Haunted Collector‘s John Zaffis, the Warrens’ nephew). Additionally, the more religious among us could imply that these sicknesses are a judgement from God. How? By pointing to biblical passages condemning the communing with spirits and the consultation of psychics. The number of connections we could make are only limited to the biases of the people making them. Hell, I’m sure that if I were to pose the question of demons to Fox News, they’d find a way to blame Obama.

But while our brains scurry to connect the dots, we must remember that the unfortunate reality of our world is that sometimes shit happens for no good reason. There isn’t always a readily apparent cause to the effect, and for some, there never will be. While it’s no secret that I’ve never been Ryan Buell’s biggest fan, the news of his aggressive cancer diagnosis shocked and depressed me. Regardless of how I feel about his career, Ryan is a young, 30 year old guy with a form of cancer that is so aggressive that over half of those diagnosed die within five months. That’s incredibly sad, and a terribly unfair situation for someone his age to be in. In fact, it’s unfair for someone of any age.

In 2007, approximately 10,400 children under the age of 15 were diagnosed with some form of cancer. These children are so young that they haven’t possibly had the opportunity to lead an unhealthy lifestyle, much less stir the anger of an ageless spirit of evil. Most 15 year old’s negative thoughts involve homework, not a life or death battle with darkness. These kids don’t deserve the trials they will go on to face, and they most certainly didn’t “have it coming”. Sometimes these things just happen.

In the cases of Ed Warren and Malachi Martin, one wouldn’t even have to argue very hard to prove that their age was a clear factor in their passing. Malachi was 78 and Ed was 79, both of them already beyond the average life expectancy for a man living in the United States (75.6, if you were wondering). Despite his tales of demon-induced hospitalization, Tom Robertson is a man in his mid seventies. People grow old, our bodies deteriorate, and no matter how many things you add or replace, eventually, we slow down, we fall, and we die.

George Lutz was only 59, but at the time of his death, he was still in the midst of a stressful legal battle with a powerful movie studio. An experience like that is rough even for someone in peak physical condition. Couple that with the fact that his case was a very personal one, one in which he was defending his name and legacy, and it’s easy to see how that situation could have been just too much for a man approaching his 60′s to handle. His official cause of death is listed as “heart disease”, a condition with clear medical links to stress.

These explanations may not be as exotic, terrifying, or heroic as a death in service to a higher power, but for those looking for a valid alternative to a supernatural explanation, they’re worth discussing. Even someone who doesn’t believe in demons could easily make an argument that it was, ultimately, Amityville that killed George Lutz.

An Answer at the Cost of More Questions

As the number of self-styled demonologists, ghost hunters, and even exorcists continues to grow, as more people choose to earn a few bucks on the side by hustling the paranormal circuit, and most importantly, as the belief in spirits of any kind continues to rise, the conversation about malevolent forces, demons, or whatever you want to call them, is more relevant than ever. Whether you’re a skeptic or a believer, a “spiritual warrior” or a provocateur, a ghost hunter or a grifter, the answer to our question is probably the same:

Can dealing with the demonic kill you? Sure.

But is it the battle with the dark forces of a deeper evil that will make you sick? Or is it the bubble of negativity you must surround yourself with to even get into that kind of head space? Is it the work of Satanic forces when your heart gives out? Or is the result of long hours, late night bacon cheeseburgers, and two packs a day? When you’re diagnosed with cancer, are you going to blame it on your heroic intervention between demons and their prey, or bad genes and shitty luck?

No matter what you choose to believe, just remember – every job has risks; it’s up to you to decide if those risks are worth the paycheck.

So what do you think? Is the demonic threat real? Or are people literally scaring themselves sick? Do you know a paranormal investigator who claims to have been affected by screwing around with demons? Have you been affected yourself? Is there an Amityville/Warrens/Paranormal State curse that we don’t know about? We want to hear your stories and opinions. Let’s have a conversation in the comments section.

Special thanks to Robyn Montella, Tim Weisberg, Lou Castillo, Candice Berlanga, and the fine folks at the PSICAN discussion group for the stimulating conversations that helped form this post.

Greg Newkirk

Greg Newkirk

Senior Editor at Who Forted
Documentary film-maker, professional monster chaser, and mystery monger, Greg is the senior editor for Who Forted? 'Zine. When he's not occupied by writing about the wide world of the weird, he's busy directing and editing documentary films like The Bigfoot Hunter: Still Searching or writing about offbeat travel for Roadtrippers. He's currently in production on his new project: an original documentary web series titled Planet Weird. He currently lives in Cincinnati.
Greg Newkirk
Greg Newkirk

72 Comments

  1. Anthony

    07/15/2012 at 12:28 AM

    Dude.. why the FUCK haven’t you written a book yet?!!!

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/15/2012 at 1:24 AM

      Just because it isn’t published doesn’t mean I haven’t written it..

      • Anthea Campbell

        04/13/2013 at 1:46 PM

        That is the best answer ever…
        I am going to tweet this Greg. Thank you :)

  2. Donna Anderson

    07/15/2012 at 5:19 AM

    Excellent article, Greg. I very much believe the demonic threat is real.

    I’ve always had an interest in Father Malachi Martin and I’ve listened to several of his lengthy interviews and done a bit of digging over the years.

    Martin was “alone” when he fell, but there was someone coming down the stairs behind him who didn’t actually see the fall. When that person made it to Martin, Martin said something to the effect that “somebody pushed me but there was nobody there.”

    The fall didn’t immediately kill Martin but he never really recovered. But it was his belief that he had been pushed by a demon.

    He also recounts stories of being bothered by some of the demons he exorcised over the years and in one interview he cites 2 separate cases of priests he was working with that died during exorcisms. Both had heart attacks but one was only 30 some years old.

    Anyway, I could go on an on about Martin, but yes, demonic forces are real and they can, and do, cause harm in any number of ways, ways which might not be apparent. I hope you and your team are doing something to protect yourselves.

    Again, awesome article. I’ll be sharing!

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/15/2012 at 7:14 AM

      I love Malachi Martin. To this day, he remains my all-time favorite Coast to Coast guest. I remember listening to his interviews as a teenager and having the absolute hell scared out of me. Then, as soon as I got over the terror I felt from his interviews, I had to go and read Hostage to the Devil, which only made it all worse.

      I grew up the son of a Baptist minister, so fire and brimstone is pretty deeply ingrained in my psyche even though I’m not religious any more. Agnostic maybe? I don’t know. Regardless, the conversation about evil spirits, demons, is something that I’ve always thought is worth discussing in a manner that was squarely in the middle ground, something that you don’t often see. I don’t want to say that demons are absolutely real, but I don’t want to say they absolutely aren’t. That’s something each person has to decide for themselves.

      Hanging out in ghost hunting circles from a very young age, literally growing up around some of these people listed, brings an interesting perspective. I knew Lou Gentile personally, who was always ready to dish about Ed and Lorraine at any given moment (among others), a good friend was very close to George Lutz, and Buell is so open about his personal life that he shares nude images with everyone over the internet. I’ve heard so many stories of demonic involvement I couldn’t even count them all, so many rumors of sickness resulting from years of spiritual provocation, even friends who claim they’ve been thrown ten feet through the air by an angry spirit. Of course that last one happened conveniently on one of the very few ghost hunting adventures that I missed..

      So no matter what, I’m always going to have a little twinge of fear when it comes to talk of malevolent spirits. Even if I don’t necessarily believe that they’re agents of the Devil, I think that in at least some cases, there is something strange happening.

      • AnoNymous9

        04/03/2013 at 11:28 AM

        Hooray for the middle road (too oft not taken!)

        I figure it this way; if you take a single radioactive atom and try to predict its exact time of decay, you find that you can’t. You can most definitely predict averages across the total population of such radioactive atoms; but at the end of the day, even the most basic fundamental units of physics have something going on that can’t be predicted (maybe yet) by science.

        Now some scientists like to assume that there are “hidden values,” that would show us how to predict these outcomes if we knew them. But no current theory requires the existence of such values. No evidence exists for these hidden values. Somehow the event of the decay of the atom is activated, but hidden values or otherwise we simply do not have even the slightest idea how.

        This means that we are left with exactly two explanations. The first explanation is that some invisible unseen force is causing events in the physical world without giving us the ability to predict it or understand it. The second option is that events are happening in the physical world without cause, without prediction, and without understanding. It’s easy to see that functionally, the two are identical; the latter just assumes that events can occur without being formed by a cause, where the former assumes that unexplained events are just as causally formed as explained events, causes beyond science.

        So since the issue of causality in chaos lies beyond science, I agree fully that we might as well, as you say, each just decide the answer for ourselves.

  3. Jeff

    07/15/2012 at 7:42 AM

    Hi Greg,

    I am new to this and have performed a few investigations. I am agnostic in faith but was raised Pentecostal. My question to you is what type of protection do you BELIEVE is effective before investigating? Holy water? What type of prayer? Is there anything you could recommend reading for this? Thanks, and fantastic article.

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/15/2012 at 11:57 AM

      Hooo boy, am I ever the wrong guy to ask. My own adventures have always been just that: adventures. I’ve never done a house clearing, never “helped” anyone with a paranormal “problem”, nothing like that. I’ve just gone to scary places looking for scary things because it’s fun, so I’ve never really felt the try and protect myself from anything.

      I know that the whole protection thing can come in a lot of different forms though. Some people rely on their faith, some people rely on trinkets, but if you ask me, most of that boils down to good old fashioned positivity.

      I’d ask why you feel the need to protect yourself. Could it be that maybe, deep down, you aren’t so agnostic after all?

  4. David

    07/15/2012 at 10:13 AM

    Great article, a really interesting read. I have to wonder, though, if malevolent spirits really could cause fatal illnesses and accidents, why wouldn’t they bump a lot of these people off as soon as they became a threat rather than at the end of a long life fighting the forces of evil?

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/15/2012 at 12:01 PM

      Good question, David, and funny enough, one that I’ve actually asked Lou Gentile back in the day. Here’s what he told me (paraphrased, of course):

      “They only feel the need to get it over with in extreme cases. Think of it this way, they’re not going anywhere. They’re ageless, formless. The span of our lives, to them is a joke. They’ll draw things out because they can.”

      Again, not my opinion, but at least it’s an answer to your question.

  5. Patt

    07/15/2012 at 1:11 PM

    Interesting article! I think dwelling in negativity is definitely bad for you and it will shorten your life. There have been enough studies now linking negativity to inflammation in the body which leads to illnesses like heart disease and cancer. So just from a mind/body standpoint spending your life fighting the powers of darkness would have to have an effect.

    I would also think that you have to live a life of constant vigilance, worrying that you will be attacked and that your work makes you a focal point for evil. That has to have an effect on your psyche.

    I have never been big into the demonology side of the paranormal. I found the Warrens downright creepy and I never liked Paranormal State nor Ryan Buell although like you I am sad to hear he has pancreatic cancer. I lost my father to it 7 years ago and there still is no cure. It’s especially sad to see someone so young get it.

    I think in the end the subject is just too complex to point to any one cause for these deaths and illnesses. The fact that so many of them lived such long lives would tend to make you say the opposite really. There is an argument to be made for the fact that because they were so aware of evil around them they made a real effort to surround themselves with good and light and religious prayers and objects. So in some ways they may have been more protected and insulated from contact with evil than most of us are normally.

    It would be interesting for comparison to look at the lifespan of people who are possessed or claim constant attacks from evil spirits but can’t or don’t protect themselves. They would be the group most affected and you would expect the ones most likely to die early or from attacks.

    • VikingBear

      07/18/2012 at 1:29 PM

      Hey Pat

      Have to say its very interesting with these folks. In Europe we dont have demons in our paranormal shows.

      Except maybe on Italy.

      If you are around negative people, you will get negativ and in the end sick. I believe in energys, and we create what we feel.

      All this Lucifer and Demon worshiping, i think thats whats going on When religious people play ghosthunters with the bibel in their hand.

      Who has ever said that the catholic church has the truth? Answer the Catholic Church.

      Protect yourself and like you say be positive.

      I dont believe in Evil, and i never experienced Evil spirits in my 37 year life.

      Be blessed all you good people, but dont manifest fear and evil.

      Ps The warrens are also a bit to negative for me, just check out their website.

      Namaste

      Love and Light

      Christian

  6. Robyn

    07/15/2012 at 6:45 PM

    Brilliant article Greg!

  7. Mad Dan Eccles

    07/16/2012 at 6:03 AM

    May I remind you of the case many years ago of Giorgi Markov, a Bulgarian dissident living in exile in the UK who claimed to have been stabbed in the leg by a stranger with a Bond villain umbrella weapon, and then fell ill and died, despite the best efforts of doctors. The autopsy revealed a tiny pellet containing ricin (one the three most toxic substances known to science). Obviously only the KGB could have carried out such a weird hi-tech murder. Also, Markov was doomed from the get-go, but he had plenty of time to tell various people all about the umbrella weapon, so the message got out very clearly – if you’re outspoken in your criticism of certain countries, they can and will get you, so shut up RIGHT NOW!

    And then much more recently, another Eastern European living in the UK whose name escapes me fell foul of his homeland’s horrible government, and was tricked into drinking tea laced with Polonium-90. Again, once that stuff was in his system there was absolutely nothing that could be done for him, and again, the murder weapon was so hi-tech and bizarre that there was on way any group short of an exceptionally unpleasant national government could have used it, so a clear message was sent to others like him.

    Demons (in which I personally believe to precisely the same extent as I believe in unicorns, but it seems that an amazing number of allegedly sane people honestly think that invisible Bronze Age Middle Eastern goblins are out to get because it says so in a book) powerful enough to kill human beings (who were, furthermore, life-long professional demon-hunters with, if their own testimony about themselves in their numerous books and media appearances is to be relied on, very good indeed at their job) who wanted to send humanity a clear message not to mess with them would surely use the same approach, only much, much more so, because, hey, they’re demons, beside whom the KGB are less scary than Hello Kitty is beside them!

    For example, if I were to rush around exorcism people claiming to be possessed (which I’m not going to, obviously, though not for the reasons discussed in this article), and after a couple of years of doing this with the loudest media fanfare I could muster, I was, like the fortunately legendary Abdul Al-Hazred, torn apart in broad daylight by invisible monsters before numerous understandably surprised witnesses, yeah, demons dunnit, so you obviously shouldn’t mess with them – point taken by absolutely everybody! It would probably be sufficient if I merely excused myself in a crowded restaurant to go to the toilet, and then when half an hour later I still hadn’t come back and a fearful smell began to seep from the gents’, I was found sitting on the bog in a three-week state of decomposition with my head facing the wrong way. Suicide it wasn’t!

    But waiting until I’m 78 and then arranging for me do die of the sort of thing that 78-year-old men die of in their millions? Nobody’s going to see the hand of Satan in that. And even if, for the sake of argument, it’s actually true, and Lucifer manifested himself to me and gloatingly revealed that if he hadn’t given me cancer I’d have lived to be 93, and I tell the world this on my deathbed, I’ll just sound like a loony. Or at best, a true media junkie who won’t quit squeezing the last drops out of the gravy train until they nail the lid down.

    I’m reminded of that strange rumour put about many years ago by extreme UFO conspiracy nuts, to the effect that if you knew too many of the government’s flying saucer cover-up secrets and went around writing sensational UFO books and generally blowing the whole thing wide open, the CIA would stick a radioactive needle in your car-seat, and about 40 years later you’d die of rectal cancer. Which is a bit like trying to stop a stampeding herd of buffalo by planting a line of acorns really close together.

  8. Mark Russell Bell

    07/16/2012 at 8:54 AM

    Who could expect anyone to take seriously a website called Who Forted?

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/16/2012 at 9:06 AM

      HEY EVERYONE, THIS GUY GOT THE FART JOKE!

      We named the blog WF to make people like you moan and complain. It’s the easiest way to differentiate the people who “get it” from the people who don’t. Thanks for making it easy! You see, rather than actually attack the content, which is hard to do since it’s pretty primo, you go straight for the name, the easy target. Which is kind of ridiculous since that name is there specifically to indicate we don’t take ourselves seriously. So calling us out on a dumb name is, well.. dumb. We know, smart guy, we picked it.

      So congratulations on making the same joke as a hundred other butthurt, bent out of shape old guys. I’m sure your blogspot blog is like, way more serious and important.

      • amanda

        07/17/2012 at 6:11 AM

        Too-Shay!!! The website might be called a “dumb” name but it sure always yields great, interesting, intelligent & very informative information! thanks who forted!!

  9. Mike

    07/16/2012 at 11:29 AM

    The old standard is that one has to believe in those ee-ville spirits in order to be harmed. This assumes that we are victims of our own beliefs.

    In mainstream science, nothing exists that is not known. If science were to confess to not knowing everything, they would lose followers like a church would if it said it didn’t know god.

    Faith is the linchpin to both science and religion. The only difference is that science denies that requirement.

    It seems plentifully obvious that good and bad operate side-by-side like hot and cold, night and day, left and right, up and down. For everything, there is an opposite that is required for balance.

    Personally, when it comes to good and evil… I prefer to avoid the the latter when possible. If you wade too far into the river, you might get swept away.

  10. R Emmet Lee

    07/16/2012 at 8:13 PM

    Great article. I am also a fan of Malachi Martin and used to enjoy listening to he and Art Bell into the wee hours of the morning, juiced on too much coffee and nicotine.

    Also, kudos on the accurate, precise and cutting use of the term, “butthurt”.

    As to demonic forces and the threat they may or may not constitute, an acquaintance of mine claimed to have raised two demons in her life. She was not overly proud of it, but instead related that they were horrifying experiences with vague man-shapes in the form of shadows who came and went as they pleased during her late adolescence into her early 20s. She felt she had opened a gateway whilst “playing” with the occult, and had only closed it with the aid of a local Catholic priest and a lot of prayer from her family and friends.

    The upshot is that she has had four children in her life, and two of them are autistic. One has a disorder so rare, only about 140 children in her state have been identified with it. It’s rare enough I’m not disclosing because it would be tantamount to identifying the young woman — at least potentially it could lead someone to her and her family. Her other child is not appreciably diagnosable with any illness, but was born after the reported closing of the portal. The other three were conceived and born before hand.

    This is not evidence, but anecdote, of course. Correlation does not imply causation – but it is sometimes cause for speculation.

    R Emmet Lee
    https://twitter.com/remmetlee

  11. Klaus Andersson

    07/17/2012 at 1:12 AM

    Do not forget abour Joe Fisher and his book ‘The siren call of hungry ghosts’ – a very interesting a credible and frightening book. Fisher ultimately jumped off a high cliff, probably due to being harassed by evil entities. Paranoia or reality?

  12. Lonnie Scott

    07/17/2012 at 8:23 PM

    Great article, Greg!

    Everyone has heard about the placebo, but the nocebo isn’t getting enough attention. Bad attitude can and does kill.

    I’m on the fence here. I think there’s a combination of events, and multiple possibilities. Some mundane, and others could be more weird. Beef up your defenses if chasing down the darker side of spirits is bad for you health. I think of all the people I know within the Occult who have no such issues.

    Your pool wasn’t big enough, but it was a great presentation!

    • Kirsty

      07/18/2012 at 1:31 AM

      You have a pool? *gets swimming stuff*

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/18/2012 at 4:47 AM

      Thanks, dude! I actually had a whole bunch of other people for the pool, but I opted to cut them out because it was just getting long and half of them were reality television stars that I didn’t want to give the impression were actually noteworthy, haha.

  13. Ashley

    07/18/2012 at 2:04 AM

    Ok think about this: if there really are demons out here among us wouldn’t it be “smart” on their part to not be too obvious to show themselves to us? Can u imagine the Catholic church and ghost hunters/demonologists going around banishing demons right and left b/c somehow its been proven without a shadow of a doubt that demons actually do exist?

    My hubby is a skeptic in this kind of stuff, but I was raised as a Christian, still am, and I wholeheartedly believe that if there’s good in this world (of course there is!! :) then there for sure is evil (right now still unexplained) all around us as well. Just my thoughts….

    Have u heard that the “Amytville case” wasn’t true and that the whole story was fabricated? Also, that the Warren’s only got involved with the case for publicity? Is any of this true? I really hope not because Lorraine Warren doesn’t seem to me to be a liar…. Seems to be a trustable lovely old lady! :)

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/18/2012 at 4:45 AM

      As much of a bummer as this is, it’s pretty well documented at this point that Amityville was a hoax. It eventually came out that Defeo’s defense lawyer and Lutz whipped up the story “over a couple bottles of wine”. There’s a whole load of inconsistencies in the case as well, so it’s been pretty well declared as a big money making scheme. Always thought it was funny that George Lutz sued the movie studio for taking his fake story and turning it around on him.

      As for the Warren’s, well, there wasn’t much they wouldn’t do for publicity.

      • CJ

        07/19/2012 at 11:09 AM

        “As for the Warren’s, well, there wasn’t much they wouldn’t do for publicity.”

        Mr. Newkirk —

        Let me tell you what Mrs. Warren HASN’T done for publicity.
        I am a mother of an eight year old girl. Whatever her abilities are or aren’t, there are spirits who talk to her. Some of them are most certainly evil. They are constantly here. How do I know this for sure? I have validated names, ages, where they lived, dates of death, and how they died. She is touched, hair pulled, threatened, and many other things I will not get into that prompted us to seek help for our innocent child.

        I contacted organizations, the Catholic Church, and people in the paranormal community. It was Mrs. Warren’s team that offered us help. They have stayed in constant communication with us. They gave my daughter something my husband and I could not — tools, help, and hope.

        I am not looking for attention anymore then Mrs. Warren is looking for publicity. When I spoke with her she offered (even though she is in her eighties and I am many states away) to come out to our home if I felt I needed her to.

        My question to you; Why? If not out of genuine concern for a tormented eight year old girl, why?

        And this –
        “This is their job, and selling their stories to you, convincing you that they are more special than you are, is how they make their money. Like any good hustler, they work all the angles for insane hours, often times only pulling in a few hundred bucks a week. Why? Because they don’t want to work a normal job.”

        I do not claim to have a personal relationship with any of the people you have listed. Including Ryan Buell. But, had it not been for his show I would not have known about Mrs. Warren. I don’t want to even think about what could be happening to my daughter if I hadn’t found her team. And that, Mr. Newkirk, is MY truth.

        And to any naysayer out there who likes to take shots at these people — I say to you, come walk in my shoes for a day. Watch your child suffer. Know real terror. Feel completely alone and helpless to stop these things. Write down what your child says, google it, and stare at your new reality in black and white. Continue to stare at the screen willing it not to be there…proof. Take shifts with your spouse during the night watching over her while the other spouse is locked in a bedroom with your other child– because of things you wish you’d never seen, and pray to God will never happen again. Try to picture that and what it feels like to love someone more than life itself and be scared of them. See the look in their eyes as they are begging you for help you can not give. Keep strangers away, know what they watch and control who they are around — but have zero control over the spirits, evil or not, who talk to or torment her. Zero control.
        To these naysayers I tell you I wouldn’t wish a day in our lives on anyone.
        We will fight for our child as hard and as long as we can.
        But we are no longer alone in this fight. The cash cow- publicity hungry- doing it for ratings, or a good chapter in their next book, those are the people who are helping our girl Mr. Newkirk. They are wonderful, dedicated, selfless individuals who have made it their life’s work to help people like our girl.
        And as I have told one particular person over and over — a simple “thank you” doesn’t feel like enough. He is more of a lifeline.

        So, since you failed to actually include a family that has been or is truly being helped by the paranormal community I thought I’d throw in my two cents on this smear job.

        You are dead wrong. Period. They are raising awareness and through THAT AWARENESS we found help.

        • Greg Newkirk

          07/19/2012 at 11:30 AM

          That whooshing noise? That’s the point of this post flying by your head.

          What if I was to straight up say, “I don’t believe you, or your story”? Instantly, it renders your wall of text invalid.. at least to me. I’m not saying that I don’t believe you, but what I’m saying is that “your truth” is just that. Yours. Not mine. Not anyone else’s. So to say that I’m “dead wrong” is a joke. If you don’t think Lorraine would have made you a chapter in her next book if your case passed the cut, then you’re kidding yourself. This wasn’t a “smear job”.. they’ve done a bang up job of smearing themselves over the years (ie: Amityville). So sure, the Warren’s could have done tons of selfless things in their lifetime, I’m not disputing that at all.. I’m saying that their career, how they made their money, was derived from telling fantastical stories that probably only have a seed or two of truth to them. That’s it.

          When you start calling your own opinions a “personal truth”, it certainly speaks of a hardcore bias. But hey, that’s how these people work. If Lorraine has affected your life in a positive way, then I’m happy for you. That must make her feel pretty good, and when you go around telling your story to internet forums, that makes her look pretty good to boot. She doesn’t *have* to share her tales of heroic deeds, folks like you will handle that. But no matter what she does behind the scenes, her actions don’t really change the fact that she’s been involved in some pretty by-the-book hoaxes.

          At the end of the day, CJ, a whole lot of people don’t even believe in spirits, and sometimes it’s a healthy thing to explore some explanations that don’t involve evil spirits. That’s what this whole thing was actually about. Not about the Warren’s, not about The Lutz, not about Martin or Gentile or Buell. It was about opinions and options and seeing things from three different perspectives, each one as valid as the next.

          Thanks for sharing yours.

  14. RYAN BUELL

    07/18/2012 at 7:06 PM

    Dear WhoForted/Greg, I made this post on an article someone sent me that was published on that silly Examiner.com. I think it’s fair that I send this directly to you, as, after all, I had to read your article to understand what the f*ck she was talking about… the bottom line is, I thank you for treating my disease with some human dignity, where as almost all other “journalists” and bloggers have failed. So here it is:

    WhoForted has clearly disliked me, almost to an obsession (although I have to give credit where credit is due, their homo erotic dance of Serg and I was something we and even the production crew gathered around to watch and laugh at for days). I have seen some distasteful articles about me, and even found someone selling Support Ryan bracelets that we determined was making them a 400% profit (we thankfully shut that down). But I do have to commend WhoForted. Their articles have, many times, been juvenile and with judgment that I’m just a cash cow, but the one i read above, I actually have to say: thank you. Sometimes shit happens. I do not blame this on bunnies (and for the record, yeah, I make fun of them, go sit in the corner and angrily pray for my soul). I know they did not do this because of a change of heart and I look forward to many more criticisms. But for once I can say, that even though for those of us who believe in the paranormal, we will never know, I do not blame and will not blame this on any force of evil. However, as pointed out, the positive support I wouldn’t mind. Sometimes I can feel it. Call me crazy. But I can say that I am thankful to find that WhoForted didn’t use this as a case to say “see what happens for being a sell-out chasing demons?” Although they have never bothered me, I did sometimes simply shake my head and say, “come on guys, if only you knew how hard we’re fighting to KEEP this show real.” I quit “Paranormal State.” That is a fact. How the hell else does a successful show just go away? (and not to nitpick, but “Ghost Prophecies” didn’t fail, it had around 1.6 million viewers… let the speculation begin then on why it really didn’t go forward). I know they do not need nor require this, and it actually may make them quiver with embarrassment, like the Grinch being hugged by Cindy-Lou, but I commend Forted for not going the Crazy-Town route of making ridiculous claims about something that has also affected the lives around me. It’s pretty strange when a site known for criticizing us demonstrated some form of respect. Maybe I was wrong, and I look forward to their growth and continued critiques. They have a lot to learn (sorry, I’m just saying sometimes I read your articles and were more like bitter banters, instead of what could have been chances for both sides to respond and you could still make your opinion as Bill Maher does), but this one has some sense to it. I’m not going to live in fear of bunnies, nor have I save for a few times as a rookie, but I have something different than Malachi… I have a large family and support system. To be a dork and quote Gandalf, “There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.” Let’s not get hysterical. And to those thinking the Devil or Belial (up! I said it!) has something to do with this, although I respect your opinions, please go read a medical textbook. And those making it very public about this belief that it’s because I fought the devil and are criticizing me for poking fun at the bunnies: you’re a dumb-ass. If bunnies are after me, then I must really be an enemy to them. So, I’ll take the punches. Death isn’t defeat. Not if its because we stand for something. Yes, I do believe in demons, but I do not live in fear. I’ve been an underdog, so maybe I’ll be the first “demon-hunter” to not succumb to a terrible cursed life, maybe not. But I don’t believe I’m cursed, so, the curse can go f*ck itself. That’s my goal, folks. PS – Dear WhoForted, please make a sequel to said-Ryan/Sergey dance.

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/18/2012 at 9:59 PM

      Well, I can honestly say I didn’t expect this, but I definitely appreciate it. First off, no need to apologize for criticism, we wouldn’t dish it out if we couldn’t take it. We’re named “Who Forted”.. juvenile comes with the territory. But as you said, we’re still growing and, begrudgingly, maturing. Just a little. We haven’t even made fun of Chip Coffey in, like, a year. Do you know how hard that is? Of course you do.

      Anyway, thank you for taking the time to share some insight into your own thoughts, time that I’m sure you could have spent doing far more important things. I’m not kidding when I say that, regardless of how I might have felt about your projects, hearing about your diagnosis really bummed me out. This kind of thing transcends bias and opinion, or at least, it should. When I first heard about what you were dealing with, it was under the guise of someone whispering “see what messing around with evil does?”. It didn’t really seem like a fair thing to say, and it was that thought that ended up prompting this post in the first place. Hopefully it has at least resulted in a few people humanizing what you’re really going through.

      In the grand scheme of things, our complaints don’t really matter, so know that it’s nothing but positive vibes for you over here. Besides, there will be plenty of time to argue when you kick this thing. Until then, our thoughts are with you, your family, and your friends.

      Now, for the love of God, stop wasting your energy responding to internet blogs and focus on getting better!

      Oh, and as for a new Ryan/Serg dance video? We’ll see what we can do…

      • Robyn

        07/19/2012 at 5:54 AM

        I have to say I agree completely with Ryan about a new Ryan/Serg dance video… the old one is in regular rotation for me. It’s nice to see that they both have a sense of humor about it too, because really.. it was funny and I have heard that laughter is the best medicine. I guess that means that it isn’t only a request but a demand if Ryan is going to get better. (see how I twisted that) Anyway it was nice to see a response because this article really was well thought out and definitely one of the more serious pieces I have seen from you.

    • Ken Summers

      07/19/2012 at 8:11 AM

      You wouldn’t be referring to my opinion articles as “bitter banters”, would you, Ryan? Hmm? HMM?? I prefer “moody and crotchety in a hey-you-kids-get-off-my-damn-lawn sort of way”. :D

      Oooh! Yes! I second that vote for a sequel! And if you need to cast a Chip Coffey for it, I’m your man. (Though it might morph into a bit of Truman Capote. lol) Just saying. I think I’d make a decent David Childress from Ancient Aliens too. :P

    • Kirby Robinson

      07/19/2012 at 9:43 AM

      It is great to see that Ryan is still the same old Ryan he never gets to the truth

      • Greg Newkirk

        07/19/2012 at 10:03 AM

        Kirby, is this really the time or the place? Let’s just hang it up for awhile. It’s not as if there isn’t a vast digital hall our opinions floating around online, there’s no need to badger a sick man. It’s poor form.

        • Linda Bouchareune

          07/24/2012 at 5:58 PM

          I completely agree! Ryan and Sergey seriously need to be left alone regardless of what opinions you may have. Please, let’s all be respectful towards their personal life. I’m sure they already have enough on their plate. Thank you!

    • Anthony Hogg

      07/22/2012 at 12:08 PM

      All the best, Ryan. God bless!

  15. Paranormal Rona

    07/18/2012 at 11:06 PM

    Good Article! I have been an investigator and spirit rescuer/remover for the last 13+ years. I don’t personally believe in demons, but I have encountered spirits of people who were very evil when alive. Rapists, child molesters, drug dealers and people who practiced black magic were some of my encounters in the spirit world. I have even seen spirits that were not quite human.
    None of them, however, has given me any illness or harmed me in any way. I think it’s hard to put a disease that is coming from man-made carcinogens, additives, and other factors, upon something that is rather spiritual, albeit evil spirit or good spirit.
    I still do not believe that spirits can harm you or kill you, there is just a law in the universe in place that doesn’t let that happen between 2 souls. It doesn’t mean they can’t give you a good migraine…

  16. Carlette

    07/20/2012 at 12:27 AM

    I’m SOO glad you wrote this article because when I heard about Ryan, I thought the very same thing ~ is there some connection?

    Thank you for this!

  17. Theresa

    07/20/2012 at 12:40 AM

    I’ve been a paranormal investigator for many years now and have seen and experienced many things and yes, it does have an affect on you physically. Do I blame the spirits I come up against? Nope. It’s the long hours, the stress (not only dealing with the dead but with the living as well) and a lot of other valid points you have presented in your article.
    I don’t agree with those who try to go and make money from being an investigator. A true investigator is just looking for the truth and to help those that need help. I HAVE NEVER charged a dime for my services and buy all of my equipment myself. I also do it for the love of the hunt as well as to continually prove to myself that these things are real (my father is a research scientist for the government so I was raised with a scientific viewpoint on things as well).
    Can spirits harm or kill you directly? I believe the possibility is there but only under very extreme circumstances and in situations where your body is already run down from the stressful life you have chosen. Either way, if a spirit does kill me someday at least I can say, like so many others who have died in their chosen professions, I died doing what I love

  18. Carlette

    07/20/2012 at 1:32 AM

    I’m SOO glad you wrote this article because when I heard about Ryan, I thought the very same thing ~ is there some connection?

    But I immediately dismissed the idea because while I do believe in ‘dark energy’, I most certainly do not believe that demons (a CHRISTIAN notion) attack. If demons do and did attack these humans, they are pretty weak and pathetic demons. With all the power of Hell, terror, fire and brimstone at their disposal, they only dish out a scratch, a bruise or *gasp* resort to pushing an OLD man down the stairs? Puleez….

    The mind is a powerful tool, and in some cases, weapon, that can be turned against us by our own will. I do believe in a spirit realm, but I also believe in my OWN ability to kick it’s ghostly ass right the hell out of my house if it dares shows it’s head. This all boils down to personal power and strength – I will NOT allow ANYthing to take that which is rightfully mine, including my children. So, to the woman who wrote in defending Lorraine Warren, this is for you honey. It is universal law that a mother can and should do anything that will save her young and the fact that you had to call somebody ELSE in to save your babies points out a flaw in YOU. Even if what you say is true, I would throw myself at that demon before I would sit around looking through the phone book for a ghost hunter. We all have the power within ourselves to defeat anything in this world whether it is from this world or the next and I can guarantee you that if something grabbed hold of either of my children, IT would be the one fleeing, NOT me. I’d give it an old school, old fashioned beat down. My shaman taught me that!

    Ryan, when I heard about you, I was devastated. I don’t know you personally but I did watch your show from time to time (too much religious spin on it for my taste, but I did watch it sometime). You were brave then and I’m sure you are brave now. Just know that some of us carry you in our hearts and meditations.

    I’m going to follow this blog, I like it! lol

  19. Chris Scales

    07/20/2012 at 8:33 AM

    I’ve had a lot of thoughts and emotions running through me since I first read this article days ago. So here comes some TL;DR ramble at you all.

    Does running around LARP’ing The Exorcist and Poltergeist really put those acting as exorcists at risk for their health? Or is it all those pre-investigation late night breakfasts at Denny’s?

    I don’t believe in demons, but I am certain hustlers exist. Greg, your diagnosis of the hardships associated with cobbling together an existence as a ‘para-celebrity’ seem right on to me. As to whether or not those habits give rise to health problems – I think most of us can agree they don’t make for a healthy lifestyle, but it’s kind of a case by case thing as to what gets us in the end.

    Do demons (however we understand that term) exist, and if they exist can they cause health problems? And if they can, do they? I recognize that many out there have no doubts as to the answers to those questions, but I have to go with: who knows? Who knows. I have my beliefs, but no proof of anything. And the term evidence just feels so soiled to me after years of hearing it come out of screwball spook chaser’s mouths. Let’s not go there.

    But man, Ed Warren. Never met the man, never met his wife, but I cannot take either of them seriously with regard to their proclaimed expertise. Unless said expertise is figuring out how to make a buck off claims of supernatural assault. If 112 Ocean Avenue in Amityville is the closest to hell that pair ever came to hell, that doesn’t say much for the rest of their alleged experiences. Then there is their involvement in the Arne Cheyenne Johnson murder case. And Ed Warren’s defense of Maurice “Frenchy” Theriault. And that dumb Raggedy Ann doll they kept sealed away. Plus, John Zaffis.

    I admit that I would like to see some of Ed Warren’s paintings of haunted houses. Other than that, I have no use for those two or their racket.

    What a way to make a living. Sometimes I feel such contempt for some of these folks out there scrabbling away for a ride on this very dubious gravy train. But it’s the path they have chosen for themselves. So be it. There are apparently people out there who are willing to pay big bucks to walk around some allegedly haunted place when someone who has been on a reality TV show is also in attendance. It’s a free world, baby. I do no one much good by sitting in judgment.

    That said here is a little judgment. A couple years ago I was at a paranormal convention. Yes, guilty (but I did not pay to get in). Chris Dedman was there, and he had these prints of poor Anneliese Michel up, as some kind of illustration of the dangers of dealing with the paranormal, specifically the ‘demonic’. I found it very exploitive (a gut reaction). It made me angry. But then when I heard him interviewed, I got the sense he was completely genuine in his beliefs, and truly wanted to help people. I think he’s wrong about Anneliese Michel and many other things but, so be it.

    To make this kinda relevant to your post, Chris Dedman also felt dealing with the demonic or whatever (can’t recall how he characterized it) can harm your health and had harmed his. Some investigation he was involved in, Chip Coffey told Chris Dedman that Dedman ‘already had’ health problems from it; he went to his doctor and learned he had some issues with his heart (I believe that his health is fine now, I hope). As I recall Dedman felt that there was a 1:1 relationship between his involvement in some case I forget and his health issue. As you say Greg, there are plenty of other possible explanations.

    I see the comment from CJ here on the Warrens and, there’s another point of view for you. I am not a believer. Sometimes I want to believe, still but generally, I just don’t believe. I can’t explain what CJ reports. But I don’t want to get involved in such a situation, either (though if such things were happening to someone I cared about, of course I’d do whatever I could). Greg your reply to her is right on. Got to confess though, reading her comment? I still get that little thrill of interest – what if CJ is right and is dealing with the supernatural? I want to know more! I am not proud of this reaction. And in truth, I would not want to be in her shoes, and perhaps not in her home.

    Another thing I realized from spectating ‘the field’ is, if you investigate active cases in family homes, there’s a good chance you are going to be up close and personal with characters ranging from the idly curious to the distraught to the shady to the truly disturbed. I don’t want to get any of that shady or disturbed on me, you know? And probably not the distraught, either. Sorry, but it’s true. These folks who want to help, who believe that they can help, who are going out and working with the haunted people of America, while not imagining a TV series or book/movie based on their exploits… well good for them, I think. If they are not actually making things worse and perpetuating or reinforcing a problem. More power to them, if through whatever means they can do some good, and are not wrecking their health, finances or interpersonal relationships in the process.

    After some time spent observing the ‘paranormal field’ a few years ago, I realized it’s a more spiritual thing for a lot of folks than I had realized. So perhaps Mr. Ryan Buell and the like are providing the the suffering with soul ease from a secular but none the less spiritual source. Just don’t cancel your health insurance, folks, and maybe take it easy on the Mt. Dew.

    Of course along with the spiritual aspect, you’ve also got the fondness for horror films and all their devices (see any of the deeply awful ‘documentaries’ that the Booth Brothers have perpetrated), and never outgrowing or tiring of the thrill of going out to the haunted bridge, or the haunted cemetery, or playing with a Ouija Board or staring at the darkened mirror while chanting “Bloody Mary”.

    And as for Mr. Ryan Buell: I learned of his health problem from this here post of yours, and now I see he has commented on the post. I was no fan of Paranormal State (was I also jealous because Ryan Buell got to play Fox Mulder in real life but I never had the nerve to try, back in the days when I too wanted to believe?). But I am rooting for you Ryan Buell. I know you will keep fighting the good fight and I look forward to hearing of your recovery, of how you beat this disease. You and I don’t see eye to eye on a good many things but I would not wish you ill, rather I wish you all the best. Glad to hear you have a great support system around you. One thing that I do believe is that our state of mind has a profound influence on our health. Stay positive.

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/20/2012 at 11:21 AM

      Hey Chris! Thanks for dropping in and lending your thoughts. While I read them I found myself laughing and nodding along like the crazy guy on the bus.

      I’m with you when it comes to CJ’s comments as well. As horrible as this may sound, I would LOVE to see and experience these kinds of wild things for myself. No matter how jaded and cynical I get, there will always be that part of me that wants to see something extranormal. If I didn’t, I guess I probably wouldn’t be running a blog dedicated to weird stuff. I’ve gotten fed up with the community, with the reality shows, and even with my own feelings toward the paranormal so many times that I’ve “quit” at least a dozen times. You can see how well that works. I always come back. It’s always that little glimmer of curiosity that does it. Of course, at this point I’m firmly on the fence, which honestly seems like the best place to be when approaching this subject matter.

      I was also of the mind that these hustlers were just money grubbing hucksters who would do anything to make a quick buck. Well, I still believe that, but it doesn’t really make me angry any more. Like you said, it’s a free world. If people think an autograph is worth $25 who am I to argue? It’s their money. And if these guys are thriving (people are actually paying to investigate with a Ghost Hunters cast member’s DAD…) then who should I really grumble about? The opportunists or the enablers?

      Anyway, your thoughts were a great read. Thanks for sharing.

      • Carlette

        07/20/2012 at 3:29 PM

        (people are actually paying to investigate with a Ghost Hunters cast member’s DAD…)

        That made me cackle out loud.

      • Chris Scales

        07/20/2012 at 5:11 PM

        Thank you for the kind words and the great site!

  20. JaniceO

    07/20/2012 at 10:59 AM

    Darkness Radio clearly read your article as they are having a special show tonight on the health hazards of ghost hunting. Are you making an appearance?

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/20/2012 at 11:04 AM

      Of course they are…

      And no, I’ve had a few people ask me about it, but I wasn’t asked to be on. Dave Shrader, well.. he doesn’t like me very much, so I can say with a pretty good amount of certainty that I’ll never be on that show. But hey, it’s good to hear that the conversation is good enough to spread, even if they don’t want to mention where it started.

  21. Patrick Keller

    07/21/2012 at 8:30 PM

    I’ve not checked out Who Forted before now. I think I may be back. I also must say it was really cool to see such a respectful meeting above between Ryan and Greg.

    As for your question and the discussion… I haven’t been in this “field” long enough to claim I know it all, but I truly believe there are no demons, no devil horns, etc. However, I have no doubt that we could some day find a connection between our health and the energies that spirits may or may not use to either communicate with us or get our attention. And, of course, those bad spirits (that were bad people) could take advantage of us, causing us harm as well. I just haven’t run into any of those yet. For several years I’ve struggled o balance my “paranormal” nerd side with my “spiritual” nerd side. The people in these two circles are so very different. Sometimes I struggle going back and forth. Most of the time when someone tells me I shouldn’t participate in some kind of spirit communication, or when someone tells me to be careful and gives me a list of things I must do before and after to stay “clean” and safe, I just smile and thank them and go about my business. But… I always keep what they said on file. :-) Just in case… and sometimes I do have my meditation before experimenting or an investigation. Sometimes I think a ritual doesn’t hurt. Plus… who doesn’t love to add a little candle flame just for fun? ;-)

    Really though, I have no clue what I’m talking about. Does anyone? Am I still talking?

    Thanks for the discussion!

    Peace!

  22. Anthony Hogg

    07/22/2012 at 12:03 PM

    Hi Greg,

    I’ve got to ask: why does the front page thumbnail image thingy feature a pic of Sean Manchester – even though he’s neither mentioned in the article, nor does the picture reappear?

    Just wondering.

    • Greg Newkirk

      07/22/2012 at 4:13 PM

      Hey Anthony! This might not be the answer you wanted to hear, but I actually picked it because it looked cool, haha. It fit the theme, and looked nice stylistically.. even though Manchester is alive and well. Perhaps the Highgate Vampire is just taking it’s sweet time.

      • Anthony Hogg

        07/22/2012 at 7:57 PM

        Thanks for clarifying, Greg!

        Not sure if you know, but that pic’s actually a still from his appearance on the BBC’s ’24 hours’ program, 15 October 1970. Here’s a clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s5jSQWFZ99o#t=195s

        (Also, disclosure: I blog about the case)

        • Greg Newkirk

          07/22/2012 at 8:28 PM

          I was wondering where it came from! I knew who it was, but I didn’t know when and where. It’s a great still. I figured maybe you were an expert, judging from your blog! Say, think you might be up for doing a guest post sometime? I don’t believe we’ve ever had anyone enlighten us on anything vampire (or vampire hunter) related.. My knowledge is pretty much culled from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, so I’m no scholar.

          • Anthony Hogg

            07/23/2012 at 7:09 AM

            Mmm, I could do that. I’d just need an angle. I have been asked by other bloggers to contribute writings.

            Is there a brief, word count, etc.?

          • Greg Newkirk

            07/23/2012 at 9:01 AM

            Nah, we pretty much just wing it. There’s no real rules or anything, it’s all just for fun.

  23. Pingback: Episode 603 – Mysterious Universe Plus+ | Mysterious Universe

  24. JFFjoe

    07/23/2012 at 1:16 PM

    Wow! Thank you for such an insightful post. Its good to see that there remain a few level headed individuals in the paranormal community. I’ve been investigating strange claims for close to 30 years now and I still don’t believe that a spirit – ANY kind of spirit – can harm us. You did a great job of demonstrating that there CAN be other causes for these ailments. Keep up the great work and I’ll keep reading!

  25. Moi

    07/23/2012 at 4:34 PM

    Here’s a post I wrote you might be interested in:

    http://physicalismisdead.blogspot.com/2012/07/hunqry-ghosts.html

    • Kirsty

      07/24/2012 at 1:02 PM

      Says ” Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.” When I click the link.

  26. Jean Benson

    07/23/2012 at 8:58 PM

    Excellent article that was thoughtfully prepared and logically presented. While I do believe in evil and demons (kind of a pre-requisite for a Catholic), I do feel that stress, negative emotions and psychological beliefs can and do influence one’s health. I also appreciated the respectful blog meeting between you and Ryan Buell. Just goes to show that people can disagree without being nasty to one another. Hang in there, Ryan, and we will all be praying for you. And thank you, Greg, for a very insightful article.

  27. xicota

    07/24/2012 at 3:54 PM

    Hi Greg–I enjoyed your presentation of the subject discussed. Each of us has our own opinion: Believer, non-believer, fence-sitter. I’ve been a clergy person for 35 years, yet there are still occasions when I’m sitting next to you on that fence.

    Forgive me if you mentioned this in your article and I missed it, but I would add repeated higher-than-background EMF exposure to the possible risks of the ghost hunting trade. Whether it be from non-corporeal entities or crappy, out-date electrical wiring (whichever an individual’s belief system accepts) at the investigation sites, it could have some validity, but how much so I have no data at present. I do remember reading about EMF exposure causing such effects as hallucinations (auditory and/or visual), paranoia, anxiety and the like. How much exposure may be causative, temporarily or permanently, is something I still intend to research.

    My grandfather and his sister were Spiritualist clergy. I grew up in a family that acknowledged an afterlife and believed that they could communicate with it, so we just accepted this as our reality (I am not currently affiliated with the Spiritualist Church). Nevertheless, I’m not out to “sell” anyone on my beliefs; whatever works for a person is respected.

    I do feel that when we stop searching, learning, moving ahead, we stop living. Whether you are “called”, driven, or just having fun—be safe!

  28. lou

    08/02/2012 at 12:59 PM

    My wife and I are both native american…. we go in and have to remove dark horses (neg enitys) quite a bit…these ghost rating shows….do no good other then damage to many…. our culture has been dealing with this for thousands of years… Please people…..this is not a game…its serious… leave it alone. Blessings …… Aho

  29. lou

    08/02/2012 at 1:17 PM

    I want to add…….I know mrs. warren personally…… Youngblood you will know one day this is real… some people have to know bad first to know good….aho

  30. SpookyTim

    08/04/2012 at 4:31 PM

    Hi Greg and everyone at WF?, just wanted to let you know that the episode of “Spooky Southcoast” where we discussed this article with Greg is now available on our iTunes and podcast feeds as well as on our website, SpookySouthcoast.com. Sorry for the delay, and for our YouTube video recording crapping out, but it must have been the demons (said with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

  31. Jane See

    08/05/2012 at 2:09 AM

    Whether we believe these evil spirit exist or they do really exist, it’s always the human minds that are the cause of worry, terror, fright and un-peacefulness. I think the human thought plays a big part here. Tsa tsas are a form of Tibetan sculpture that symbolize various protectors such as the protector against evil spirits, black magic, prevents sickness, increases wealth, counters demon and so on. The Kechara Tsa Tsa and Chakra collections are sacred and will bring protection to those who believe in them.

  32. Paula Briley

    10/19/2012 at 5:31 PM

    I have a demon. There , I said it. This is a plea for help. I meant to harm, it’s true. I made a choice. But I made a bad choice, and now I have been trying for over three years and it is winning. I am about ready to give up.
    Let me break it down…please tell me if this is normal or not.
    Back around 14 years ago…I was in an abusive relationship and had bought a house with that person. The house had a lost spirit who didnt know how to move on and he tried to get attention to the point of pissing me off so I banished it to the corner. I couldnt bear the sound of his crying so I looked into the ways to help a ghost “move on”. I performed a little ceremony and was elated when I sensed his passing over. Right at the moment the doorway was cleared , I felt the rush of some dark, greasy , oily , yucky mass coming towards my newly opened doorway. In absolute terror , I closed the door {mentallly and in pantomine} and sealed it at the four corners. I felt the thing slam into the closed door and the anger and frustration of it at missing the chance to get in. It wheedled at me , offering great things which I laughed at , although I was still shaky from the close call. I was never worried about it because I was arrogant and thought I was in control..
    After almost three more years of physical and emotional abuse I was evicted from my home and the abuser was given all rights while I was left out in the cold to die. I was angry and tired …It plied me with thoughts of revenge and justice. I went into that home one last time and to the portal I had once created. I whispered at the door …and came to a deal. I basically shook its hand and opened the door. The deal was for it to ROT THAT HOUSE FROM THE INSIDE OUT AND FREEDOM TO USE DAVID AS A TOY UNTIL HE EITHER ACKNOWLEDGED HIS ACTS TOWARD ME AND ASKED FOR FORGIVNESS, OR HE DIED. AFTER THAT, IT WAS TO RETURN TO THE ABYSS. IT WAS NOT TO TOUCH ME OR MY LOVED ONES. I WAS THE MASTER . IT WAS TO OBEY.. i was so foolish.
    Skip forward six years…I wss in a beautiful marriage with twin boys and happier than I ever had been. Married to my first love and best friend of over 25 years. This man knew me..knew my fears , my loves, my passions. I had every possible reason to be happy. My only issue was my past…and the nightmares of the abuse I suffered. My husband would wake me from them and I would be in tears. On a random trip to the area I had come from and been with the abuser, he sought me out, and when I came to the door. he fell to his knees and begged for forgiveness. He said all the things I needed to hear, and my heart was healed. I called my husband to share this with him and he felt real relief at the unburdoning of my soul.
    Two months later, I got a call, David was dead, had fallen over dead with no warning. and in that house I had given to the demon.
    This is alot to type,and the first time I have said it all out… I will continue if you want to know the rest… I am living it today. paula

    • Jk

      08/02/2013 at 2:29 PM

      Please continue your stry

  33. Neutral Observer w/a ParanormalBent

    10/20/2012 at 7:09 PM

    Okay-touching upon a few things brought up by the forum’s commenters, as well as by Greg:

    As a person who lives on Long Island, over the years I vacillated in my belief over the Amityville story.

    Waffling between thinking it may be true-to- the other side of the spectrum of not believing a word of the story.

    After listening to interviews( Gentile- Warren- Lutze & John Zaffis), reading interviews and sizing up the situation, I finally came to this current mindset that is something we should all consider: Even if the Lutzes totally lied about EVERYTHING?

    How could a home with a family slaughtered in it, NOT serious residual bad vibes in it?

    Regardless of who did the killing, how could anyone even conceive of buying that house after such an enormous,sick tragedy like that? I mean I really question that. No matter how beautiful the house and location might be, people died horribly in that home and yet, it went up for sale and had other owners.

    For me- digesting that is a bit hard even though it is a fact on record.

    The idea, that perhaps the son & daughter both plotted the murders(even though she ended up dead as well) makes it all the more twisted.

    To kill your family you really have to have a great amount of rage. I mean pure rage- like possibly demonic rage. To not spare anyone? I mean if you hated one parent in particular- you get matricide or patricide- but both parents AND all your siblings? The only other kind of rage is drugs. There is a lot here that makes no sense with regard to motive and the degree of violence.

    Is the killer son a true mental case or is he perhaps possessed by something wicked to commit such a heinous crime? Or was that possession just simply being a drug addict?

    Either way- this is an extremely violent crime where multiple people died and even if you are not religious or do not believe in ghosts or spirits or demons, you have to at least believe in bad energy/negativity lingering in a home like that.

    Then there was a leak in more recent years, that the Lutzes son was supposedly going to open up and admit his father was into occult practices before he bought that house. I do not believe in spreading rumors -I am just telling you the latest I heard on the case.

    If this is true- it throws a whole new light onto the Amityville Horror story.

    A sickening crime and the next homeowner is an occultist. But what kind? Just curious? Or seriously consulting with the spirit world?

    Yes, I know the various details in the original story about the home and all that happened in it, make the Lutzes version very sketchy.

    I know we waver between believing it and the notion that they sat down over wine and concocted the whole thing up.

    What became of the priest that was involved? We hear he was never the same and sent to some kind of place to recover from whatever he witnessed there.

    Fact or fiction? And fact or fiction from the R.C.C. Diocese or someone else?

    Is he even alive?

    So we have all sorts of holes in the story to the Amityville horror when told by the Lutzes.

    ( Just to throw this in: I only saw the movie about 2-3 yrs ago and was “horrified” by the poor quality of this film. The acting, cinematography, plot,etc. I can’t believe that people actually watched it and considered it a “horror” movie. I have not even bothered to visit the actual location of the home).

    To get back on point: the only thing that seemed to give the Lutzes story ANY credence, is unlike so many other haunted house stories told by survivors- they fled in haste.

    I have digested too many stories of many other people living in a haunted dwelling( sometimes violently so) for years. People who had a choice to move and did not.

    Children don’t easily have a choice but adults- parents often do.

    I mean- really what is up with that * phenomena*?

    The” I will live here if it kills me and my family” attitude???

    For any story like that, which may actuall be true- how did the children fare psychologically after living in utter fear for years in their own home?

    Gee- think PTSD is a big part of their lives now, huh? :-(

    A story that is in book form(came out at least 10 yrs ago) and was recently on a current paranormal show, was about a woman who lived in Brooklyn( Gravesend Area) with her daughters in a seriously haunted house for YEARS!

    How does someone do this? How do you let your kids live through that? I do understand denial. But years of denial? Hello????

    This woman was no dummy. She was educated – a nurse and seemed to really care about her daughters and want the best for them. Staying in that damn house she moved into( a step up for them) and all it’s creepiness just boggles the mind.

    I am NOT calling the woman a liar. Her book was decent reading but could have been shortened in length. I was disappointed that the tv show did not tell the half of it.

    The story of her house in Gravesend Brooklyn had far more history- far more activity and far more entities than the tv show depicted.

    So the show and the book clash on facts. In truth, 1 hour was not enough to cover what was in her book, but my point is: what kind of people willingly live in seriously haunted houses where incidences of violence happen?

    Sadly, it is their desire to stay- despite what is going on, that makes many dubious of their claims.

    It makes others question their honesty and their soundness of mind, if they are willing to subject themselves to such malevolent spiritual abuse.

    I realize there are some well known people out there, who had this experience and who are now *helping* others who live or lived in similar situations.

    Again, I am not refuting their claims so much as questioning why they never left.
    And yes, I know in some instances, spirits can attach to the person or family and follow them;so in certain instances, moving would be pointless.

    But in some cases, the spirits are attached more to the structure than the people. They actually want the people OUT.

    Am I alone in being confounded by this????

    I just cannot fathom staying in such a home-under constant attack- no matter how much I paid for the home- no matter how beautiful it was – no matter where it was located.

    So for all the people that found Amityville to be malarky from day one (or as more evidence came out to make it seem to be a sham) we have to at least admit, that if there is a shred of truth to the haunting, they left that house, pronto. IF WE CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THEIR STORY.

    As for Malachi Martin.

    I consider Father Martin to be the Muckracker of the corrupt R.C.C. ( I am not bashing. I am a Catholic but one who knows the church’s record has been pretty bad since it was first created centuries ago)

    Yes, why wait to kill Martin? After all, he admitted priests were practicing the black mass.

    His goal was not just to write veiled books about the truth,but to also openly expose the R.C.C. and all the dirt that was behind it.

    He basically said Pope John Paul embraced the New World Order!

    If ever there was a great place for the devil to hide out- it would be in plain site. Right smack in the Vatican- right in our churches where children could be molested and raped. Who would think evil could happen in such holy places?

    It worked, didn’t it?

    But yes, it is a good point about why wait so long to * kill him off*.

    First let me say,I am friends with a person who was close with Martin. They told me about that day he fell.

    He did indeed say( as one of your commenters mentioned above) that he was pushed from behind, by an unseen force.

    I was told he had just returned from an exorcism when he had been pushed down the stairs. Payback? Who knows.

    I am uncertain how much time had passed between the exorcism and the fall. But there seems to be a link that cannot be ignored.

    If Martin had not said what he said, everyone would attribute his death to an accidental fall.

    Those throwing in the fact that he was in his 70′s? Sorry- I know too many agile people that are in their 70′s thru 90′s, so age is just a number to me.

    I am also into astrology and believe things are fated- so for me that means, when your number is up- your number is up.

    Was Malachi’s number up? Perhaps. I never did is astrological chart.

    If someone did his chart they might be able to see if he would die by the hands of something/someone malevolent.

    Right now-no one can answer anything with certainty.

    But the unseen shove and the fact that he lived to mention it, leaves us to ponder his exit from this world and the true cause behind it.

    Martin did say each exorcism takes a little more of YOUR SOUL.

    And if exorcisms are anything like depicted in the movie THE EXORCIST OR THE EXORCISM OF EMILY ROSE( 2 movies that demonologists & priests agree come the closest to the accuracy of a real exorcism) how tired, and spiritually drained, are people like Father Martin and some of the other people mentioned in the article?

    There is fascination to the paranormal. Unfortunately there is negativity and danger as well. I despise *investigators* that film shows that make a mockery of the study with their behavior and investigative antics.

    People have the right to not believe in any of this.

    But for those of us who do believe or at least feel there is something more ( the metaphysical)it is easy to grow tired of bad paranormal/ghosthunting shows that are all hype- a lot of screaming, fake scares and bad acting.

    This was long but I had to share my thoughts with you and others, wondering if anyone else feels the same way about the various subject matter covered.

  34. Neutral Observer w/a ParanormalBent

    10/20/2012 at 8:24 PM

    With regard to the comments flying on the Warrens……well, if you cast doubt on their abilities or their sincerity/ belief in the cases they took on, then you also are going to have to cast doubt on the integrity of John Zaffis, their nephew.

    John doesn’t strike me as a fame monger, but then with his reputation, he doesn’t have to be. Anyone who studies the paranormal- already knows who he is.

    And yet, he gives off a down to earth attitude. His Uncle did NOT encourage him to get into this line of work. But he was drawn to it and so, he continues the tradition of his aunt and uncle.

    Do keep in mind, like a lawyer- the Warren’s were supposed to believe their client when their client tells their story.

    And like a lawyer- they may feel -initially or otherwise- their client is full of *&^%%.

    What they did about it when they thought a client was a total BS artist- I have no idea.

    But clearly, their goal was about trying to help people.

    If it was about fame- they did get that. But how rich did this all make them? Who knows.

    For the kind of work they faced, most people would not do it no matter how well it paid.

    (Also, many demonologist now offer free help,to those in peril.)

    Being a demonologist just does not seem like a fun, light hearted kind of job. You just went over this in your article about jobs and hours that will kill you!

    As it is, too many people( usually young teens or adults- or- just the totally, dangerously clueless) love the thrill seeking and scares involved with the paranormal and never entertain the thought of the serious danger behind valid cases or what they could bring home with them.

    And, far too many people who approach the paranormal with this attitude end up taking home problems- ie: attachments. Suddenly, it is not all fun and games anymore.

    Zaffis currently has his show out now” Haunted Collector”.

    I have no idea about the ratings on it, but I have viewed quite a few episodes and came away with this impression. JOHN IS NOT ABOUT HYPE OR SENSATIONALISM.

    His film crew is depicting an investigation as it should be: the reality of what it is to investigate a location, do work hands on, as well as doing investigative research.

    The filming of each case quickly let’s the viewer know that not everything is super exciting or terrifying.

    Some cases are pretty cool- some okay- some blase’.

    I found I learned some historical info from the show, which was a plus.

    The seriousness of it all matters as well and his crew goes about their job with serious intent.

    I say this because of there are too many shows where the investigators are joking around and showing total immaturity.

    Wait- is there no respect for the dead? The people you are trying to reach out to? Why would any of them even entertain contact with that attitude?

    And if you have something angry coming from beyond the veil, well yeah, I guess with the giggling and joshing, I would understand why a inanimate object was thrown at you.

    You have investigators( at least that is what they call themselves) at a sanitarium where hundreds of people lived, suffered and died terribly and the crew being filmed is making jokes and playing pranks on each other. Ha- ha- how so not funny. :-(

    With Zaffis’ show, everyone is strictly business whatever part they may have in the investigation.

    You get to see the set up of equipment and in seeing that, you realize pretty fast that watching and waiting for SOMETHING to show up ,can be very time consuming and boring.

    Even the set up of electronics looks tedious.

    Sometimes I wonder how they keep themselves awake through the hours of just WAITING.

    Lastly, John and his crew does not seem to try to make his show sensational.

    It is -what it is.

    What I find it to be is straightforward.

    Whatever they manage to get- they get and they move on from that location to another case.

    Even as the show draws to a conclusion he admits that the article the team recovered may or may not be the culprit behind the activity.

    But since that is what is found- what else do they have to go on, or at least remove from the premises if it is a trigger item?

    It has a format he follows to a T. I can predict his usual comments- from” It’s been a long night guys” to” What would you like to do with this object”.

    He is obviously not into showmanship, so while it is very predictable in parts with the dialog- it feels more genuine than the other shows.

    As for his haunted museum/barn?

    Well, I just don’t get anyone having the desire to have a multitude of negative energy objects housed under one roof.

    It seems like a store house of a lot of bad stuff-akin to a nuclear bomb facility.

    What if someone ever broke in and took stuff or just plain unleashed the energy by breaking the barriers each item had around it? What would happen?

    I personally find it freaky, but his museum apparently has a draw.

    The Warrens may not have been perfect. John is not perfect. None of us are.

    I have not met any perfect psychics or mediums or astrologers either.

    All that counts with the Warren’s is intent and good intent.

    If any of their clients were liars- what can they do? Be guilty for believing them?

    I think the Warrens could have gotten a very bad read( as in terrible malevolent energy) off the Amityville House even without the Lutzes ever having moved there.

    If you feel they are part and parcel to a scam- I don’t know what to say. You and I both have no proof of that-either way.

    As for any people who moved in after the Lutzes, who claim they noticed nothing- maybe they aren’t “sensitives”.

    Maybe they actually were able to live there and be unphased by the vibes the violence left behind.

    Again- I find it inexplicable why anyone would want to live in a house where an entire family was murdered- but hey, that is me.

    I know an area in my town, where many deaths occurred- some by accident -some by suicide.

    I am an intuitive empath. Yet I stand at this place plenty of times over the decades and feel zero. Nothing. Nada.

    I have knowledge of what went on in this area, so technically I would be deemed biased. Still ,for some reason, I pick up nothing, other than my own personal sadness that so many people lost their lives there.

    But no, for me, it does not have any sort of energy to the location. Weird huh?

    The Warren’s might have been taken by the Lutzes. Maybe even other people fooled them as well.

    But it does not mean they did not read something off the locations they went to, even if the person contacting them was less than honest.

    We are dealing with a world where it is very hard to get concrete proof( the world beyond the veil).

    You raise interesting points on the Amityville Horror and what is amazing, is that long after the Defeo Murder and the Lutzes leaving that home for good- no one has a definitive answer on this case. In truth- many questions remain unanswered.

  35. John Baker

    08/30/2013 at 12:39 AM

    While a board wont damn your soul; you might be talking to homy the clown rather then your uncle Leroy. Athiests are not any challenge for evil spirits because to lack faith is a sign of unwillingness to believe even anything evil. Also; theoretically athiest ideals make for bad serventing. However; there are stories of atheists who’s ideals fall in line with being a good person. Most are able to find that which was lost to them either by realizing in the end. Or with the silent guidance of others. No religion by anymeans is sanctified. And any one who is in a church could.be a very darm person.

  36. John Baker

    08/30/2013 at 2:59 AM

    But you never know. Things work in weird ways. I for one don’t claim to know.

  37. Georgi Bonchev

    05/05/2014 at 8:22 AM

    Well, the latest news actually show that dealing with paranormal may make you the oldest living man on Earth. Check that:

    http://www.dailygrail.com/Mind-Mysteries/2014/4/Parapsychologist-Alexander-Imich-is-Now-the-Worlds-Oldest-Living-Man

  38. The Flash

    06/14/2014 at 3:29 PM

    You were a son of a Baptist Minister and today u don’t believe…but u believe in devils and that they r real..but u don’t follow the Lord, u follow something eles.

    All this gay stuff comes from WHORING heavy drugs and sex outside of marriage, when that happens people receive evil spirits. If you go out as a young person to bars looking for the opposite sex and wind up in the sack with someone involved with bi-sexuality or someone involved with the occult, and you didn’t know it …u received a evil backwards spirit.

    Many people in this generation have evil spirits and (don’t know it) that includes straight people..because of whoring and very few have repented. Others are polluted with evil spirits and r possessed and sleep around everywhere infesting more people…inside of those who r possessed, “{gay)”,many many r waiting to be freed from the grip of satan because they r possessed and there is nothing they can do about it, unless someone prays for them. Which very few do, because for whatever reason no one seems to understand.

    At the same time many gay people who r possessed secretly get involved with churches not telling people they r gay and end up wearing holy e tire….telling the people to except the gay life style blah blah blah and because so many people have very little faith, they will except whatever they r told to keep peace and for the good of humanity….which is a pile of crap!

    This a current list of accused priests http://bishop-accountability.org the number of accused priests is beyond staggering!

    Many other churches have the same problem…a good church is far and wide between in this generation.

    If u were to look back in history, there was alot of gays in the early 1900′s and gay movies at theaters. In 1917 The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to children in a place called Fatima. She gave a warning that if people don’t repent God the Father will punish us by a world WAR…that happened, not just once but twice. When the wars was over, in the 40′s and 50′s was the cleanest time with many living with good morals. Divorce was taboo, the movies were clean and decent and people like my mom did not even know what a lesbian was until the 60′s.

    In the 60′s young people rebelled…heavy drugs, dirty feet and dirty bodies and hair…open sex ,orgies and whatever. The singer Cher was a part of that and tried a lesbian thing that she realized was not for her….the point is, she tried it! and got cursed for it, just look at her daughter or son…whatever this person is? that goes with many many others…it started back in the 60′s and many r cursed by it. There is even prophecy that the pope at that time stated “the smoke of satan has entered the church.

    Here’s something off the wall. The Lord has different ways of showing people stuff, if they r receptive. The rock star Alice Cooper was the first man to have a woman’s name .We all know how he flaunted sick images of all kinds in everyone’s face. Alice Cooper comes from a very strong long line of ordained Baptist Ministers and other preachers in his family. His father was a ordained Baptist Minister and the woman AC married, her father is also a ordained Baptist Minister.

    When he first came out IN 1968 0R 69 the majority of people hated his guts BIGTIME!…In LA people would buy tickets just to walk out….even when they came to see Jim Morrison and the Doors…they cleared the building empty when Alice Cooper took stage before the Doors.

    Within ten yrs after Alice Cooper …gay bars flourished in all major cities…men dressed like women and women dress like men…Everything u see when u look at Alice Cooper is what this generation is all about…total darkness. What people use to hate is now excepted as a normal thing. When AC chopped babies to pieces in front of the world…they didn’t realize it’s about them and the onslaught of abortions everywhere!…instead they would point the finger at AC and say your sick! when it’s really the whole generation that is sick.

    AC has never ever whored around, never divorced and he’s not covered in tatoo’s like everyone he is surrounded by.

    There is more to this, The Blessed Virgin has appeared everywhere around the world…VERY FEW LISTEN….there is a Great Warning coming to everyone…after the warning many will flock back to church not realizing many of the churches r sick. Soon after the warning the ANTI CHRIST will come out as a man of peace and per sway the people that gay is ok and preachers the current pope and governments, political people and many by the multitudes will agree with this anti christ…until he shows his full colors.

    When he shows his full colors, persecution of Christians will be alarming…..the same thing that everyone has seen at a Alice cooper concert…the hangings guillotines, electrocutions will happen in real life to many Christians and to those who will not take the mark of the beast…which will be a computer chip on the hand or forehead..

    It’s true…The Second Coming of Christ is right above us. It’s going to happen in our life time…once the Warning, then the anti christ for approx 3 and a half yrs…then The Second Coming.

    Only Catholic prophets r calling out about the Warning in the Christian world..all other Christians from different denominations….r putting flames to it because it comes from the Virgin Mary and only a few listen to her when she appears with messages for the whole world. Even many many Catholics today r against these messages of The Warning and Second Coming of Jesus.

    Because a whole pile of them r queer.

  39. Ryan M.

    07/14/2014 at 7:28 PM

    Spirits are real. And they are weak. So weak they must exert much energy to interact with us. So weak they cannot physically manifest. I think the more power you give to these beings, the more powerful they become. If they are messing with you, just hang in there. They will stop. Or try to downsize them, mess with them back. They hate it. The real question to me is, can demons really take OVER people? How? And can a demonic spirit be born, as one of us? That would explain Hitler, and some of my neighbors. >_<

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